As was pointed out by the two comments earlier, that forward I received yesterday that had commentary attributed to Anne Graham was not entirely correct. The actually interview went like this (thank you, Yael):
Jane Clayson: I've heard people say, those who are religious, those who are not, if God is good, how could God less this happen? To that, you say?
Anne Graham Lotz: I say God is also angry when he sees something like this. I would say also for several years now Americans in a sense have shaken their fist at God and said, God, we want you out of our schools, our government, our business, we want you out of our marketplace. And God, who is a gentleman, has just quietly backed out of our national and political life, our public life. Removing his hand of blessing and protection. We need to turn to God first of all and say, God, we're sorry we have treated you this way and we invite you now to come into our national life. We put our trust in you. We have our trust in God on our coins, we need to practice it.
However, what I said before still holds true for me. There is someone else out there who put that forward together, and then there is a whole group of people out there who continue to send that around, believing, if not it's source, then at least it's words to be true.
At the same time, I still think that the forward contains some essence of Anne Graham's sentiments. She may not have been as aggressive in her approach, but it appears to me that she is still saying that because Americans have asked God to stay out of our public lives, 9/11 was allowed to happen and now God is angry over the tragedy. She is still trying to push her faith on all of America in her own way, and I think that is a mistake.
In any case, Anne, I owe you an apology for misconstruing your words in my earlier post.
Thursday, July 14, 2005
Wednesday, July 13, 2005
Expert Hikers
Expert Hikers
Originally uploaded by Pookah.
I spent a lovely Sunday climbing rocks at Purgatory Chasm and then painting rocks at Christy's home. This shot is of my godchild Sarol and Christy navigating some tricky tree roots (or, as Christy calls them: branches).
While I Do Not Claim To Have A Lot, What Little Intelligence I Do Have Has Been Offended
This morning, I received an email forward from someone I don't even know (every time my friend Laure sends out a group email - this time to let us all know she moved - the group starts hitting reply all and I get a lot of information about people I don't really know) and it really offended me. Mostly because the original speaker would like to believe that we should all take her at her word. My two brain cells, which have been rubbing together to create a little bit of friction up there, are offended.
The email went a little something like this:
You might have seen or heard this particular interview before, but it certainly needs to be reread especially in light of the bombings in London.
In light of the many perversions and jokes we send to one another for a laugh, this is a little different: This is not intended to be a joke, it's not funny, it's intended to get you thinking.
Billy Graham's daughter was interviewed on the Early Show and Jane Clayson asked her, How could God let something like this happen? (regarding the attacks on Sept. 11). Anne Graham gave an extremely profound and insightful response.
She said, I believe God is deeply saddened by this, just as we are, but for years we've been telling God to get out of our schools, to get out of our government and to get out of our lives. And being the gentleman He is, I believe He has calmly backed out. How can we expect God to give us His blessing and His protection if we demand He leave us alone?
In light of recent events...terrorists attack, school shootings, etc. I think it started when Madeleine Murray O'Hare (she was murdered, her body found recently) complained she didn't want prayer in our schools, and we said OK.
Then someone said you better not read the Bible in school . The Bible says thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not steal, and love your neighbor as yourself. And we said OK.
Then Dr. Benjamin Spock said we shouldn't spank our children when they misbehave because their little personalities would be warped and we might damage their self-esteem (Dr. Spock's son committed suicide). We said an expert should know what he's talking about. And we said OK.
Now we're asking ourselves why our children have no conscience, why they don't know right from wrong, and why it doesn't bother them to kill strangers, their classmates, and themselves. Probably, if we think about it long and hard enough, we can figure it out. I think it has a great deal to do with WE REAP WHAT WE SOW.
Funny how simple it is for people to trash God and then wonder why the world's going to hell.
Funny how we believe what the newspapers say, but question what the Bible says.
Funny how you can send 'jokes' through e-mail and they spread like wildfire but when you start sending messages regarding the Lord, people think twice about sharing.
Funny how lewd, crude, vulgar and obscene articles pass freely through cyberspace, but public discussion of God is suppressed in the school and workplace.
Are you laughing?
Funny how when you forward this message, you will not send it to many on your address list because you're not sure what they believe, or what they WILL think of you for sending it.
Funny how we can be more worried about what other people think of us than what God thinks of us.
I think Anne Graham believes us all to be morons. For some reason, she is operating under the assumption that if we aren't teaching our children the Bible, or if we don't believe in the Bible, then we operate on a completely different value system. Apparently us non-believers don't know the difference between right and wrong, moral and immoral. We prefer to teach our children to despise differences, and we're standing outside of every Walmart handing out semi-automatic weapons to anyone over the age of 5.
Just because I don't believe in the Bible, that doesn't mean that I don't agree with some of it's morals. Just because I don't think that school-led prayer in the classroom is appropriate, even demoralizing to children of certain faiths, that does not mean I think God or religion has no place in peoples' lives. And just because some extremists decided to terrorize Americans on 9/11, that does not mean that I believe that teaching the Bible in our schools would have changed a damn thing.
Don't get me wrong, I have absolutely no problem with a class on religion in our schools, whereby all the major religions of the world are explored, but FAITH is not a matter of science and learning. Prescribing a faith to someone is NOT something that should be taken on by the school - it is an individual CHOICE. It isn't as easy or incontrovertible as 2 + 2.
As for the comment on Dr. Spock and his preference for not spanking his children, I think it is highly inappropriate to pass judgement. I know plenty of well-adjusted people who were both spanked and never spanked. I didn't even realize this was an issue that religion was dealing with - is Anne Graham saying we should all spank our children? Should that practice be reintroduced into our schools? I'm not really sure where she was going with that...
In any case, Anne Graham is working off of a lot of assumptions and telling people we're all being punished by war and terrorism because we aren't paying attention to the Bible and to God. Do you realize that those men who crashed those planes into the world trade towers thought they were on a mission from God? God is not as clear-cut as we would like to think.
Most of the wars in history have been fought in the name of God, and every one of these crusading soldiers BELIEVED he/she was right. They prayed, they worshiped, they carried their religious paraphanelia with them into battle. How can you say that it is by our neglect of God that "the world is going to hell?" What does that mean? What does that solve? And who's God are we supposed to worship to gain peace on earth?
Personally, I don't believe it's possible. I believe in the yin and yang of life - there will always be moments of great happiness, and they will always be balanced by moments of great sorrow. Whether or not you choose to believe in a deity or god, your life will be full of both extremes and all the moments and emotions in between. If we did not know sadness, would we really appreciate the good in our life? I tend to think not.
We humans are capable of so many things - we are such imperfect beings. There will always be war, famine, poverty, violence, crime... But there will also always be love, laughter, sunshine, hugs, family, friends. I don't need to believe in God to make that happen for me.
Of course, I am always open to the discussion - so long as it IS a discussion, and not just a monologue that presupposes I am going to hell for never having read the Bible. I don't like being preached at or disdained for my belief system, which is probably why a lot of people avoid discussing religion (and politics). Too many people cannot communicate their ideas without passing grave judgement on you and your character.
In any case, Anne Graham, I think you're missing a good portion of understanding, forgiveness and open-mindedness. And Sheri, thanks for the email.
The email went a little something like this:
You might have seen or heard this particular interview before, but it certainly needs to be reread especially in light of the bombings in London.
In light of the many perversions and jokes we send to one another for a laugh, this is a little different: This is not intended to be a joke, it's not funny, it's intended to get you thinking.
Billy Graham's daughter was interviewed on the Early Show and Jane Clayson asked her, How could God let something like this happen? (regarding the attacks on Sept. 11). Anne Graham gave an extremely profound and insightful response.
She said, I believe God is deeply saddened by this, just as we are, but for years we've been telling God to get out of our schools, to get out of our government and to get out of our lives. And being the gentleman He is, I believe He has calmly backed out. How can we expect God to give us His blessing and His protection if we demand He leave us alone?
In light of recent events...terrorists attack, school shootings, etc. I think it started when Madeleine Murray O'Hare (she was murdered, her body found recently) complained she didn't want prayer in our schools, and we said OK.
Then someone said you better not read the Bible in school . The Bible says thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not steal, and love your neighbor as yourself. And we said OK.
Then Dr. Benjamin Spock said we shouldn't spank our children when they misbehave because their little personalities would be warped and we might damage their self-esteem (Dr. Spock's son committed suicide). We said an expert should know what he's talking about. And we said OK.
Now we're asking ourselves why our children have no conscience, why they don't know right from wrong, and why it doesn't bother them to kill strangers, their classmates, and themselves. Probably, if we think about it long and hard enough, we can figure it out. I think it has a great deal to do with WE REAP WHAT WE SOW.
Funny how simple it is for people to trash God and then wonder why the world's going to hell.
Funny how we believe what the newspapers say, but question what the Bible says.
Funny how you can send 'jokes' through e-mail and they spread like wildfire but when you start sending messages regarding the Lord, people think twice about sharing.
Funny how lewd, crude, vulgar and obscene articles pass freely through cyberspace, but public discussion of God is suppressed in the school and workplace.
Are you laughing?
Funny how when you forward this message, you will not send it to many on your address list because you're not sure what they believe, or what they WILL think of you for sending it.
Funny how we can be more worried about what other people think of us than what God thinks of us.
I think Anne Graham believes us all to be morons. For some reason, she is operating under the assumption that if we aren't teaching our children the Bible, or if we don't believe in the Bible, then we operate on a completely different value system. Apparently us non-believers don't know the difference between right and wrong, moral and immoral. We prefer to teach our children to despise differences, and we're standing outside of every Walmart handing out semi-automatic weapons to anyone over the age of 5.
Just because I don't believe in the Bible, that doesn't mean that I don't agree with some of it's morals. Just because I don't think that school-led prayer in the classroom is appropriate, even demoralizing to children of certain faiths, that does not mean I think God or religion has no place in peoples' lives. And just because some extremists decided to terrorize Americans on 9/11, that does not mean that I believe that teaching the Bible in our schools would have changed a damn thing.
Don't get me wrong, I have absolutely no problem with a class on religion in our schools, whereby all the major religions of the world are explored, but FAITH is not a matter of science and learning. Prescribing a faith to someone is NOT something that should be taken on by the school - it is an individual CHOICE. It isn't as easy or incontrovertible as 2 + 2.
As for the comment on Dr. Spock and his preference for not spanking his children, I think it is highly inappropriate to pass judgement. I know plenty of well-adjusted people who were both spanked and never spanked. I didn't even realize this was an issue that religion was dealing with - is Anne Graham saying we should all spank our children? Should that practice be reintroduced into our schools? I'm not really sure where she was going with that...
In any case, Anne Graham is working off of a lot of assumptions and telling people we're all being punished by war and terrorism because we aren't paying attention to the Bible and to God. Do you realize that those men who crashed those planes into the world trade towers thought they were on a mission from God? God is not as clear-cut as we would like to think.
Most of the wars in history have been fought in the name of God, and every one of these crusading soldiers BELIEVED he/she was right. They prayed, they worshiped, they carried their religious paraphanelia with them into battle. How can you say that it is by our neglect of God that "the world is going to hell?" What does that mean? What does that solve? And who's God are we supposed to worship to gain peace on earth?
Personally, I don't believe it's possible. I believe in the yin and yang of life - there will always be moments of great happiness, and they will always be balanced by moments of great sorrow. Whether or not you choose to believe in a deity or god, your life will be full of both extremes and all the moments and emotions in between. If we did not know sadness, would we really appreciate the good in our life? I tend to think not.
We humans are capable of so many things - we are such imperfect beings. There will always be war, famine, poverty, violence, crime... But there will also always be love, laughter, sunshine, hugs, family, friends. I don't need to believe in God to make that happen for me.
Of course, I am always open to the discussion - so long as it IS a discussion, and not just a monologue that presupposes I am going to hell for never having read the Bible. I don't like being preached at or disdained for my belief system, which is probably why a lot of people avoid discussing religion (and politics). Too many people cannot communicate their ideas without passing grave judgement on you and your character.
In any case, Anne Graham, I think you're missing a good portion of understanding, forgiveness and open-mindedness. And Sheri, thanks for the email.
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